A Conversation with Ram Dass

A couple months ago, I was blessed to have the incredible opportunity to have an hour long video chat with one of the most influential spiritual teachers of our time, none other than Ram Dass. For those of you who don’t know Ram Dass, let me provide a brief bio. Born Richard Alpert, he became a Harvard psychology professor but deep down felt something was missing from the traditional psychology teachings. So much so that it led him to experiment with hallucinogenic drugs, which eventually got him kicked out of Harvard. Next he landed in India in the 60’s, in search of answers to this mystery called life. He felt he had obtained some answers with the recreational drugs, but the effects weren’t lasting. How to make them last?

Enter his guru, Neem Karoli Baba, otherwise known as Maharajji. One of my favorite stories from Be Here Now, his seminal book, was when Maharajji took the entire container of LSD, a dose that would ordinarily kill someone. Nothing happened. How could this be? There are so many other amazing accounts of Maharajji that our western minds are not conditioned to believe. Luckily, my time in Bali two years ago made me a believer and led me to his book. What Ram Dass and all Maharajji devotees later learned they were in search of was unconditional love, what we all are deep down, and which was obtained by being in Maharajji’s grace. Even though Maharajji has since left his body, I have felt a taste of this love by being in the presence of devotees such as Ram Dass and Krishna Das. It’s truly an indescribable feeling to be surrounded by that unconditional love. Not that I know what being on a hallucinogenic drug feels like, but I’d imagine it feels like being on drugs without the drugs. And now I can’t get enough. I’m addicted to love.

The “closing swim” with Ram Dass at the Ram Dass & Friends Spring on Maui Retreat in May 2018. (Photo not taken by me and sadly I have no idea who took it. I was singing “row row row your boat” with RD in the water).

Back to the Skype call. I was going into the conversation after having had a relatively rough week emotionally. Honestly, I wished that the conversation could be any other day than that day. But I had waited three months for this opportunity, and there was no way I was going to pass it up.

Knowing I was about to have a conversation with one of the most influential spiritual teachers of our time, I luckily had the presence of mind to video the event. For whatever reason, just yesterday I watched the video for the first time. I had avoided it like the plague, remembering some awkward silences before the conversation got going and not wanting to relive that awkwardness. Ram Dass (fondly called “RD” by his satsang) had a stroke over 20 years ago, and since that time his speech has been relatively slow. I knew this going into it, so expected those awkward silences. Needless to say, I am glad I watched the video for the first time yesterday. Being so moved by the conversation, I’ve decided to write my first blog post. I can’t think of a better topic to share.

So what were the main RD takeaways from my call? I didn’t actually go into the conversation with a list of questions to ask him. I intended it to be more of a free flowing conversation, and that it was. RD is still very humorous and charismatic, despite the effects of the stroke. At one point I asked him why he is still doing retreats, these Skype sessions, and other public and in-home events for his followers. The man is 87 years old, is in a wheelchair full-time, requires caretakers for his daily needs, and struggles to speak as rapidly as he used to pre-stroke. I’ll never forget RD’s response, although I already knew the answer. He doesn’t really have a choice. Sharing his wisdom with others is Maharajji’s doing; it’s by his grace that he is still able to do these events and have these conversations. RD described it to me like this: Maharajji was behind him (RD was sitting in a reclining chair) and is the fishing pole, RD is the worm, and I am the fish. Maharajji wants to share his love with as many people as possible, and RD is simply the pawn so that he can reel more people toward truth. RD had a good laugh when describing this to me, as did I.

I take it back, I did have one question that was burning a hole in my mind for the entire two years since I found my spiritual path in Bali. When I was in Bali, I was able to drop a lot of the western conditioning such as the necessity to always be doing something. Always being productive, sitting behind a computer, doing doing doing. What I learned in Bali was the ability to be. I learned I had to take some time to ‘be’ in order to eventually ‘do.’ So I stopped searching for a remote job that would allow me the flexibility to travel, I stopped working so hard on a travel blog I had just created that seemed to be causing me more stress than anything, and I stopped thinking I should be doing this or doing that, one appointment after the other. I just decided to do whatever my heart felt like doing that day. Meet up with a friend? I’m in. Ride around Ubud aimlessly on my motorbike? Done. But there was no way I was going to continue to sit on my laptop in a coworking space when I had taken those six months off work in the first place to avoid sitting in front of a computer all day. I had finally learned to ‘be,’ and was able to enjoy the rest of my trip with that mentality in mind.

But this led me to a bit of a quandary. If you want to get anywhere in this world, you have to ‘do’ to some extent. You can’t just keep being and doing whatever the heck you feel like doing at that given moment without making some forward progress, right? How would I get anywhere in life just doing what I love all the time?

This question has thus bothered me since my awakening in 2017. Since I had Ram Dass on the phone, I figured I’d throw it to him and see what he had to say.

In summary, RD told me that our challenge in life is to ‘be’ and ‘do’ concurrently. We ‘be’ from the soul level in “soul land” as RD calls it, viewing life from witness consciousness through the lens of the soul. We ‘do’ from the mind, from the ego perspective in the physical world, performing the daily tasks that allow us to follow our truth. So essentially, if you can figure out how to consciously operate on both planes simultaneously, you are being and doing at the same time. In other words, be the witness from the soul level as you are doing in the physical world. How profound!

“The soul land is the witness of the ego. The ego is your plans and your past…that’s the one of doing, the ego. The soul is being. And you do two planes at once. The soul witnesses the incarnation and witnesses the mind, the thoughts. You witness, you act. You witness from being ... being is your deep soul and doing is ego. - Ram Dass, December 13, 2018”

While RD did not specifically say this during our conversation, I want to add my perspective to that. To me, ‘being’ means operating from your own inner truth, doing what you love and following your heart rather than what has been programmed into your consciousness through societal conditioning, friends, parents, anyone but you. So you can still ‘be’ by following your soul’s truth while consciously viewing the physical plane from this witness perspective. Allowing passing energies to come and go, viewing from the soul level while ‘doing’ everyday tasks on the physical level, following the flow of life.

I mentioned to RD at one point that I had a rough week emotionally, but that he had already helped to cheer me up simply by talking with me. He told me to love all emotions because souls love everything, even negative emotions such as fear, anger, and greed. Take it all with a grain of salt…love everything; allow the emotions to be there. Such beautiful advice, and again perfect timing.

“You witness your thoughts and you love the thoughts that are not good for you. You love your fear, all those things play into the ego…souls love everything. - Ram Dass, December 13, 2018”

I’m currently located in CT and mentioned that to RD, who is on the island of Maui in Hawaii. When chatting about my time in CT, I told RD that it can be challenging when not surrounded by spiritually minded communities such as those in Maui and Bali. We also spoke about dealing with difficult people or people you may not agree with. RD’s advice? “You don’t have to get involved in their karma.” How simple, yet profound. We are all souls living out our own karma. While it’s tough to avoid negative energy, if we know deep down that we are each on our own paths and there is only so much we can do to help another being and they are simply on their own path, we can act out of compassion and if there is negative energy, avoid it. We don’t have to take in any karma or energy that is not our own.

Although not my most flattering pic, this is me meeting Ram Dass for the first time at the May 2018 Spring on Maui event (post vows of love).

I was lucky enough to attend the RD spring retreat on Maui last spring. I’ll never forget the feelings of love overflowing from my being during the entire six day retreat. And no, I was not on drugs. I felt it every time I was around Ram Dass, during the Krishna Das nightly chants, and essentially the entire time being surrounded by such an awake, like-minded community of seekers. It truly felt as though Maharajji was there with us and we were being bathed by an ocean of unconditional love. I found myself getting extremely emotional, welling up in tears many times throughout the retreat, for no other reason than feeling as though I was so lucky to be there, to be alive and to be surrounded by this community. I had found my home.

After RD gave a talk at the retreat, he was being wheeled away by one of his caretakers, and some people from the audience were given a chance to talk with him briefly. Not wanting to miss the opportunity to meet him in person, I brought myself into his presence. When it came my turn to say something to him, literally all I could muster out was,

“I love you,”

I said it full of emotion with tears streaming down my face. Nothing else came to mind to say. I love him as one soul loves another, and am so grateful for all of his incredible teachings that have entirely changed my life. I knew that RD would get what I meant…from one soul to another. He simply replied, “I love you too.” Enter the floodgates.

While RD and I were chatting on Skype, when thankfully I was able to hold myself together enough to have a meaningful conversation, it came up that I had actually met him before. Since he meets so many people, I was sure he may not have remembered that brief encounter, so I retold the “I love you” story. He mentioned he remembered me from a swim. RD does Monday swims with the community on Maui and I was lucky to go to one after the retreat. Impressed that he remembered me (I mean, who wouldn’t?), I said I’d be back again soon to re-meet him in person.

The amazing thing about guys like Ram Dass and Krishna Das is that they are not overtaken by ego. Despite their fame, they act like normal people and don’t let their fame get to their heads. No, they are simply following what Maharajji has directed them to do in their lifetimes. By his grace, they have not been overtaken by ego and treat everyone they meet as equals. We are all one. The conversation with RD was easy and meaningful, like having a conversation with an old friend.

I suppose RD couldn’t let the conversation end without going out on a high note.

He signed off by simply saying:

“I still love you.”

Floodgates reopened. So blessed.

Ram Ram,

Jodi

* Cover photo: Ram Dass in the audience at his Spring Retreat on Maui, May 2018.